CHARTER [Last updated 8-6-2004.]
The charter of rec.guns is:
1. To discuss shooting sports, reloading and other recreational activities involving firearms.
2. To discuss training and safety information involving firearms.
3. To discuss home and personal defense involving firearms.
4. To announce firearms and accessories to buy/sell/trade. (See later comments on repetitive posts.)
5. To discuss laws pertaining to firearms ownership and use.
6. To carry information and announcements concerning political and legislative activities. The focus here is on information, not debate or interpretation, which is the primary forus of other newsgroups. Politically sensitive articles are best kept short and to the point with a minimum of rhetoric. For example,
"Congress will vote on a bill to ban all firearm sales in the United States, retroactive to last year. This could be very inconvenient. It's bill #666, please call your congressdaemon."
7. To carry new-product announcements, product reviews, safety alerts and other consumer services of interest to firearm owners.
BRIEF GUIDE TO POSTING
If the focus of an article is ... then we might suggest you post more oriented to .... it over in ...
politics/legislation debate talk.politics.guns
militia matters misc.activism.militia
survivalist matters misc.survivalism
hunting rec.hunting
knives, blades, sharp things rec.knives
guns you can't tote yourself sci.military.moderated
bows and arrows rec.sport.archery
misc other weapons rec.martial-arts
paintball rec.sport.paintball
jokes rec.humor
picture files alt.binaries.pictures.misc
sound files alt.binaries.sounds.misc
interesting programs comp.sources
home security misc.consumers.house
interpreting uninterpretable laws misc.legal
discussing police procedures alt.law-enforcement
discussing stuff "in the news" alt.current-events.*
militaria alt.military.collecting
Please have care about how much net bandwidth you use up. When responding to a previous post, try not to include an entire copy of the old text unless its really necessary. Every bit of editing you do will help the readers get your point more efficiently, and conserve on the aggregate supply of network bits at the same time. Similarly, we hope you'll not go overboard on large signature files and images. I will generally feel free to prune excessive signatures at the end of messages, though I hope posters will keep them small to start with. Typically, we excise large PGP appendages as well, for the same reason. Posts that appear to be conducting some survey (e.g. "what is the best gun for XXX?") will be posted with followup set to "poster", so we do not see the whole volume of responses show up here; we presume the poster will summarize and post the tally later.
Please don't post in HTML or MIME formats ... not everyone has a reader that knows how to make sense of them.
We generally prefer not to carry responses to "for sale" posts where the point is to kvetch about the price. If you think someone is asking too much (or too little) then please tell them so off line. The phrase "buyer beware" is in force always, so let's try not to clog up the net with lots back-and-forth on what constitutes fair, how much you think you can get the same item for back home, and so forth. Prospective buyers should of course feel welcome to ask for that kind of information from the group.
When posting a question about a particular firearm, you may wish to avoid citing the entire serial number. It would be a shame if someone "lost" a firearm of that number, reported it to the police as such, and then "found" it by accident on the net. I'll generally mask out the low-order digits of the number if I notice it on text going out.
Also concerning attempts to reach particular individuals through the whole news group: please don't do this except as a last resort. We want to keep our signal to noise ratio attractive to all readers. As a standard practice, I will not post these without first trying to forward via mail using my own mailers (such as I have time!); so if you *do* send a post intended for the eyes of only one individual, then at least send along the addresses you tried so I don't have to bounce it back to you right away. But remember, this is an era of excellent archive services too, so if your partner has ever done anything much on the net before, then you can often use such tools to track down a current address through very few clues.
Also in the interests of making good use of our bandwidth: postings sent to more than one target news group at once are likely candidates for pruning. I generally assume the topic is getting adequate coverage elsewhere on the net, and just allow the post to drop, unless it is particularly relevent to our group (generally they aren't.) But in almost all cases, I will make a choice between posting it in rec.guns or in the other groups ... not both. (If you want the post sent to other groups too, then send it there separately from rec.guns yourself so I don't have to manually edit it to send it there, which is currently the case.) The same is true for reposts of messages from other widely-accessible mailing lists; repetitive "me too" messages or one-liners that might not add much to a thread (e.g. "doh!"); question responses that would end up being duplicated needlessly (the record: someone asked "what does ACP stand for after .45?" got me thousands of answers over the following two months.... I don't post these anymore.); duplicative posts advertising FS or WTB (please hold repeats down to no more frequent than 10 to 14 days, also please post one message with all your material rather than a sequence of separate posts); and messages for threads I have already redirected either to another group or to "poster." In all of these cases the message is just dropped.
Random "test test, is this on?" messages are just dropped. It's just too common a situation now, where people pick a random group, try tests, then get confused when this moderator returns their post. Rather than respond with extensive background on who a moderator is and how the net works, we just drop random pings and tests except as arranged ahead of time for the purpose of debugging. (In that latter case, I'll suggest you send a test message with subject line marked "MODERATOR READ"; this string will get flagged separately here, and I will do a reply with a copy of your post with full headers included so you can see how things show up here. It will NOT be processed to the group.)
Also in the spirit of keeping duplicate material on the net low: Please avoid the temptation to post messages here telling how you are posting FS messages elsewhere. If people want to follow some auction web site, then they will read about it there, but we don't need to chew up our bandwidth to duplicate the other site's advertising. (Please note: Traffic promoting ebay in particular will not be carried here. If they want to make a big social statement by not carrying firearms, we will make a quiet statement of our own and simply not have anything to do with them.)
Posts telling us only a URL of some site on the WWW will simply be dropped. One-line web site announcements are becoming excessive, and it is now the case that the majority of them don't have much to do with rec.guns. Sorting through which are which takes time for me, so if you want to announce a new site, then tell us something about why it has to do with rec.guns, thanks.
Please don't send material that is subject to some copyright restriction. I assume everything sent here is done so under the terms of this group, which means it is free to be posted and archived openly, compiled into my digest for redistribution and so on. Your including an explicit copyright statement suggests otherwise. We don't have the resources to go and check for permission to use such text, and so won't use anything that you have identified as being protected in some way. Likewise, sometimes I notice the inclusion of material from a source I suspect may be protected (for example some news services); I make a good-faith effort to return those when I notice them, though have no way to compile a database of such restrictions in general. Bottom line, please only send us material we can really use.
In the interests of decorum, please don't fire off a post complaining about other individuals within the readership. (For that matter please don't send threats, invective, abuse or other trash.) If the purpose of your post is to talk about others, then the place for it is elsewhere. Those who demonstrate that there's no reasoning with them in this matters -- i.e. those who won't listen to our requests to keep things on-charter -- will be simply dropped from group discussion in the future. Sometimes in net dealings you can have a legit beef with someone, and as a consumer forum we might really need to know about it here. But when posters start naming names, then things usually melt down quickly into a food fight. The readership has no independent way to judge in such personal matters, nor should it try to. So ... if you feel there is something that consumers should be informed of, then please post a message outlining the situation abstractly, and invite people to contact you off line for details. Off line you can name names or proceed however you like.
All posts sent here are archived. The assumption is that if you send it to us, you agree to this. Please do not send requests that we post material that would *not* be archived, since we have no way to ensure this is not done elsewhere, and we don't have the resources to do a lot of special casing of posts here.
Finally, we do not knowingly process anonymous posts. We certainly can't tell in all cases, but we must assume that each poster accepts some minimal responsibility for his or her contribution. As a practical matter, this includes cases where people booger up headers in a (vain) attempt to avoid "spam" from the net. Regardless, in these cases, I just let the post drop.
FORMATTING
Please, let's all do our part to keep the overall volume of net traffic as low as we reasonably can. In particular, we hope you do not include text of previous posts ... at least any more than necessary. Many news programs now make it easy for you to insert old text for "context" ... but they also make it easy for you to edit. Please only put in those lines you really need in order to make your point.
As mentioned elsewhere in this charter, I will touch up a post when included text is excessive, but of course this slows down the overall processing of regular posts by the moderator. It used to be that our load was such that I could read and snip thoughtfully ... but our load is tremendous now. So you should assume that if I have to edit, it would probably be incorrectly. (In fact currently I use a program that simply excises all included text.) It is going to be more understandable to all if you do the edits yourself, thanks.
A special note for "FOR SALE" posts: please, please, please put in some sense of locality when you write your message, especially for sale of firearms. The most common response people want to post as followup is "where do you live?" So if for no other reason than protecting our net bandwidth, it is good to post where you are. It really does make a difference to many readers on how they respond too.
In cases of a running thread inspiring you to write many posts, then please take the time to look through all the posts on that topic, forumlate a response that includes all of them, and post one response. To a group concerned about keeping the volume low, then multiple posts from the same user (all having the same subject line) are a clear invitation to pruning. It would be a shame to loose useful information in later messages if we incorrectly think the multiple posts are just a hiccup in your news software (which is common these days.)
A WORD TO THE WISE
Rec.guns is a public forum. Don't post anything that you wouldn't want printed in the newspaper (an international one, at that.) Remember that this group is monitored by both law-making and law-enforcing bodies alike, so please help us uphold high standards of quality, for information as well as the way it is presented. Rational argument and citation of fact will do more to promote the positive aspects of shooting and shooters than the vitriole from both sides commonly found in other gun-related groups.
FAQ
The FAQ for rec.guns contains info donated from volunteers on net who address many issues concerning firearms (both technical and non-technical), such as defensive use, safety information, manufacturer information, and reloading data. The list is long. If you have a question about firearms, check the FAQ first. If your question isn't answered to your satisfaction by the FAQ, the people in rec.guns will welcome your questions and be as helpful as possible. Note that the FAQ is immense and thus only a FAQ pointer is posted regularly. Check in the news.answers, rec.answers, and rec.guns newsgroups for the rec.guns FAQ pointer, or use one of the following: Via WWW: connect to the URL http://www.recguns.com The rec.guns FAQ maintainer may be contacted at magnum *at* cs.umd.edu
MODERATION
My goal is to moderate in moderation, that is, unintrusively. I hope to post anything that falls within the charter of the group. On occasion, I will touch up the headers, formatting and "included" text of articles, but prefer to avoid extensive hacking of the text. On rarer occasions, I will ask the poster to shorten an article that would be inconveniently long for the forum; in such a case, I would suggest the poster send a short note to announce where on the net a reader could find the main text body. One of the benefits of being moderator is of course that I get first crack at wise cracks, so on what I hope are innocent occasions I may insert some piece of direction, guidance, witicism or wisdom; in such a case, I always label my contribution as MODERATOR.
The software I have written to assist in processing messages will excise almost all but the essential NNTP fields; this is to keep things uniform for the world and sane for me. Apologies if you miss seeing your own favorite frivolous field in the headers.
In some cases, valid header lines are sent in, but with bogus values. This usually causes the news system to hiccup, and requires that I manually edit the header to correct the format problem. (Classic example: sysops who set up their Message-Id: field to be something cute.) In this case, I'll fix it if I have time, otherwise the post will go out as-is (which is to say, it is effectively dropped.)
Except as outlined earlier (e.g. dropping of test posts or messed up headers) I try not to reject an article without returning it to the author with a brief explanation of why it was rejected. In such a case, I almost always give a suggestion of alternate groups where it could be submitted. Often I find messages from `regulars' that need redirection; in these cases, where I have an understanding worked out ahead of time, I will redirect the message to another forum without checking with the poster first. Finally, we often get requests for very simple pieces of information, such as ``How do I apply for membership in the NRA?'' I often answer these directly without using up the net bandwidth of a full posting. Other times I'll just send back a message about how to access the FAQ.
If you submit an article but neither see it in the newsgroup nor receive an acknowledgement, then either your article or my reply was lost in the Great Network Void. Therefore, it's a good idea to keep a backup copy of any long article you submit. Currently I am able to process most messages within hours of their arrival here, so wait a day or two (to give the net a chance to catch up) before sending a follow up query. Occasionally I will be tied up with my day job (or matches!) so please have a little patience before firing off some kvetch about censorship or debugging.
Please try to avoid submitting posts here that are simultaneously submitted to other "local only" groups. (For example, one of the most common multi- group posts we see here are "for sale" messages sent to both rec.guns and to tx.guns.) Your post won't go to any other group listed on the Newsgroups line; if one group listed is moderated (as is rec.guns) then nothing goes out until one moderator processes it. The problem with local groups is this: most of them aren't visible to my system here, therefore I can't process your message to go into those groups. I need to manually edit out the other news groups listed, process your message into rec.guns, and then send the message back to you to repost to those local-only groups yourself. That is a lot of work for me and delay for you -- so why not avoid the situation at the start?
Some emerging net providers aren't providing news posts in what we would call a `timely fashion.' Readers at the end of long news feeds should be sure to check whether posts they are replying to are old (as in up to weeks out of date); if so, then you might check well ahead for other replies before you post your own. Often we find that a thread has run it's natural course and been history for quite some time, but then our bandwidth gets used up as the poorer providers send out an old batch of posts for their readers to rediscover and respond to anew. Usually we'll let such threads die if there doesn't appear to be much new in them.
A brief note on huge files.... please don't post them. Our forum is gated to many other subnets and mailers, and sysops graciously allow us the use so long as they have a good idea of what kind of usage to expect from us (which is to say "little".) Huge files, such as come from uuencoded sound or image files, or from useful programs, really louse up our arrangements. Try posting it elsewhere on the net, or set up an ftp server, then post a brief pointer to it here in our forum. These seems to work the best.
Please do not harvest email addresses from posts in this group for use in spam advertising. We surely can't stop you from doing it, but if we find it so then we will never again carry traffic on your products or company. If not for negative ads, then you'll get none at all here.
Comments and suggestions for improvement are always welcome.
LEGAL MATTERS AND CAUTIONS
We are not lawyers here, and even if so then we could not know the laws of all 50 states, let alone numerous countries. Some items offered for sale in this group may not be legal in certain jurisdictions. Similarly, some activities discussed here may be illegal in some jurisdictions (e.g., concealed carry of firearms). It is the reader's responsibility to learn the relevant laws before acting. No one in this group, and certainly not the moderator, can be responsible if you act illegally. If in doubt, contact a good attorney. Regardless, all local, regional, state, federal, international and galactic laws must be complied with, especially in regards to transactions involving firearms and ammunition.
A similar disclaimer applies to firearms safety. Be sure you understand what you're doing before following any advice posted to this group. THIS IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT WHEN HANDLOADING AMMUNITION. Though many knowledgeable and experienced people post to this group, typographical errors do occur, and your situation may not be identical to that described in the posting. YOU have primary responsibility for your actions. If in doubt, check with a competent gunsmith.
ADDRESSES
Most news software should be set up to submit postings via email to gun-control@cs.umd.edu
`Out of band' communication and requests not for general distribution should be sent to magnum@cs.umd.edu
A digestified version of rec.guns is sent out to those who may not have regular access to the netnews version. Send an out-of-band request to me if you find yourself in such a situation and I will add you to this list. But please, please, please --- only use it if you cannot get rec.guns at your own site! My mailer is loaded enough as it is.
If you miss seeing your posts, then the first thing to do is check with your sysops or news feeds to ensure that your news database is configured to send to the above addresses. In the mean time, you can just email to the first address, just like news will do. We'll figure it out.